Palestiniens, Israéliens, qui a raison ?

[Blacky 10]

I mean in the official level.

 

not in the popular level.

 

of course the people can consider themselves like they want.

 

I understood ! As I told you before , in your dreams !

[Yimjek 10]

I understood ! As I told you before , in your dreams !

 

so what's your ideal ?

 

that the Algerian state defines itself officially as an Amazigh country ?

 

that's already the case, in case you missed it.

 

our country is officially Amazigh, Arab, and Muslim.

 

what do you want ? that Arab and Muslim identities be removed and only Amazigh identity kept ?

 

for me this "official identity" stuff is completely useless, it doesn't change anything, it's just silly.

 

it's a purely symbolic stuff, as it doesn't change anything in the real state of the country.

 

and few countries in the world are officially defined as belonging to an ethnicity, a race or a religion. such definitions are by their nature discriminatory.

[Blacky 10]

so what's your ideal ?

 

that the Algerian state defines itself officially as an Amazigh country ?

 

that's already the case, in case you missed it.

 

our country is officially Amazigh, Arab, and Muslim.

 

what do you want ? that Arab and Muslim identities be removed and only Amazigh identity kept ?

 

for me this "official identity" stuff is completely useless, it doesn't change anything, it's just silly.

 

it's a purely symbolic stuff, as it doesn't change anything in the real state of the country.

 

and few countries in the world are officially defined as belonging to an ethnicity, a race or a religion. such definitions are by their nature discriminatory.

 

Le retour aux sources , c'est-à-dire à notre identité Amazigh , il ne s'agit pas juste de l'ajouter dans la constitution , il faut l'enseigner , car c'est ça notre vraie identité , c'est des hypocrites d'un côté ils l'ont ajouté dans la constitution (De force ! ) et de l'autre il ne respecte même pas la chronologie , ils disent que l'identité algérienne est l'arabité , l'islam et l'amazighité qui est laissé en dernier , là ça veut tout dire , alors que chronologiquement parlant c'est l'Amazighité , puis sont venus les arabes qui ont apporté avec eux la religion musulmane ............à méditer !

 

Un pays doit se construire sur une base solide , nous notre pays est construit sur le mensonge !

[Yimjek 10]

Le retour aux sources , c'est-à-dire à notre identité Amazigh , il ne s'agit pas juste de l'ajouter dans la constitution , il faut l'enseigner , car c'est ça notre vraie identité , c'est des hypocrites d'un côté ils l'ont ajouté dans la constitution (De force ! ) et de l'autre il ne respecte même pas la chronologie , ils disent que l'identité algérienne est l'arabité , l'islam et l'amazighité qui est laissé en dernier , là ça veut tout dire , alors que chronologiquement parlant c'est l'Amazighité , puis sont venus les arabes qui ont apporté avec eux la religion musulmane ............à méditer !

 

Un pays doit se construire sur une base solide , nous notre pays est construit sur le mensonge !

 

I've already said that I'm for two national languages, Algerian Arabic (darija) and Tamazight, the languages spoken by the people.

 

and they should be both taught in school, obviously.

 

with the more scientific and technical subjects being taught in English, the most adapted language for that.

 

as for defining identity in the constitution, well, that should be removed altogether, there are practically no countries where the constitution defines the ethnicity of the country.

[k-15 10]

@Blacky,

 

really you should stop that obsession with national identity, there is no need for a national identity at all.

 

an Algerian is an Algerian, that's all.

 

he can call himself an Arab, a Berber, or whatever, but it's not the role of the state to define an ethnic identity for him.

 

there is no democracy in the world that is officially defined by an ethnicity.

 

as far as the State is concerned, citizens are citizens, and are all equal, with the same nationality.

 

retire ton masque….l'islamiste.

[Zoubir8 174]

Le retour aux sources , c'est-à-dire à notre identité Amazigh , il ne s'agit pas juste de l'ajouter dans la constitution , il faut l'enseigner , car c'est ça notre vraie identité , c'est des hypocrites d'un côté ils l'ont ajouté dans la constitution (De force ! ) et de l'autre il ne respecte même pas la chronologie , ils disent que l'identité algérienne est l'arabité , l'islam et l'amazighité qui est laissé en dernier , là ça veut tout dire , alors que chronologiquement parlant c'est l'Amazighité , puis sont venus les arabes qui ont apporté avec eux la religion musulmane ............à méditer !

 

Un pays doit se construire sur une base solide , nous notre pays est construit sur le mensonge !

 

En tant qu'Algériens, nous avons une culture variée et riche.

 

L'identité d'un individu est faite de plusieurs appartenances. Mettre en avant seulement une de ces appartenances aux dépends des autres est un signe de maladie infantile et de crétinisme avancé.

[Ladoz 11]

 

we only need a language Academy, to reassemble all the darija vocabulary and have a complete language, fit for officialization.

 

the same can, and has been done with tamazight.

 

With all due respects ............it makes no sense !!!

[Ladoz 11]

Le retour aux sources , c'est-à-dire à notre identité Amazigh , il ne s'agit pas juste de l'ajouter dans la constitution , il faut l'enseigner , car c'est ça notre vraie identité , c'est des hypocrites d'un côté ils l'ont ajouté dans la constitution (De force ! ) et de l'autre il ne respecte même pas la chronologie , ils disent que l'identité algérienne est l'arabité , l'islam et l'amazighité qui est laissé en dernier , là ça veut tout dire , alors que chronologiquement parlant c'est l'Amazighité , puis sont venus les arabes qui ont apporté avec eux la religion musulmane ............à méditer !

 

Un pays doit se construire sur une base solide , nous notre pays est construit sur le mensonge !

 

Les élèves n'en veulent pas , tu veux les y forcer ?

 

C'est Boutef qui l'a ajoutée dans sa constitution sans en référer au peuple souverain .

 

Le Dr te conseille , si tu aimes tant ton "amazighité" , de te battre pour préserver les multiples dialectes berbères qui tendent à disparaître au lieu de plaider pour une langue qui n'a jamais existé .

[Ladoz 11]

Je parlais de l'invasion arabe , idem pour les français , toutes les colonisations se ressemblent

 

Discours totalement absurde !!!

 

D'un côté tu parles de démocratie et de droits de l'homme , d'un autre côté tu énonces des thèses racistes et attentatoires à l'unité nationale ...

[Guest Mahboub]

Les élèves n'en veulent pas , tu veux les y forcer ?

 

C'est Boutef qui l'a ajoutée dans sa constitution sans en référer au peuple souverain .

 

Le Dr te conseille , si tu aimes tant ton "amazighité" , de te battre pour préserver les multiples dialectes berbères qui tendent à disparaître au lieu de plaider pour une langue qui n'a jamais existé .

 

Le amazight est pour ceux qui veulent l'étudier et en dehors de la kabylie les gens ne parlent pas amazigh dans la majorité des cas, cette langue est pour les kabyles, sans aucun probleme

[Yimjek 10]

retire ton masque….l'islamiste.

 

That's really the best one :D

[Yimjek 10]

With all due respects ............it makes no sense !!!

 

in other words you are for the status quo .

[Zoubir8 174]

I would like a world without sionism.

It will be better.

[Blacky 10]

Les élèves n'en veulent pas , tu veux les y forcer ?

 

C'est Boutef qui l'a ajoutée dans sa constitution sans en référer au peuple souverain .

 

Le Dr te conseille , si tu aimes tant ton "amazighité" , de te battre pour préserver les multiples dialectes berbères qui tendent à disparaître au lieu de plaider pour une langue qui n'a jamais existé .

 

Reste à savoir , et puis est-ce qu'ils ont demandé l'avis des élèves ou de leur parents avant de leur imposer la langue arabe ? Non , il en sera de même avec Tamazight ..............

[Yimjek 10]

Reste à savoir , et puis est-ce qu'ils ont demandé l'avis des élèves ou de leur parents avant de leur imposer la langue arabe ? Non , il en sera de même avec Tamazight ..............

 

in my vision,

 

studies would be in darija in the areas where it is spoken, and in tamazight where it is spoken.

 

just like in Belgium, Schwitzerland, Spain, and all the other countries where many languages are spoken.

 

as for scientific and technical subjects, they would everywhere be taught in English.

 

the emergency in Algeria is really to develop industries, modernize the economy, and achieve economic developement, so we can live in it comfortably and peacefully, and so will our children.

[Blacky 10]

in my vision,

 

studies would be in darija in the areas where it is spoken, and in tamazight where it is spoken.

 

just like in Belgium, Schwitzerland, Spain, and all the other countries where many languages are spoken.

 

as for scientific and technical subjects, they would everywhere be taught in English.

 

the emergency in Algeria is really to develop industries, modernize the economy, and achieve economic developement, so we can live in it comfortably and peacefully, and so will our children.

 

ça ne pourra jamais se développer sur du khorti !

[Yimjek 10]

ça ne pourra jamais se développer sur du khorti !

 

it will develop when the state is not corrupt nor bureaucratic and lets economy prosper.

 

and when education is of good quality.

[Couscous Nomade 10]

:mad:

 

Yimjek,will you please stop the thread hijacking for f*uk's sake ! :mad:

[Guest Mahboub]

yerham waldikoum, herdou bel 3arbiya wella bel français

l'anglais c'est pas une langue des algeriens, c'est la langue des méchants anglo saxons

ceux qui ont inventez sionistan et wahhabistan

[Yimjek 10]

:mad:

 

Yimjek,will you please stop the thread hijacking for f*uk's sake ! :mad:

 

What do you mean by hijacking the thread ? you mean we aren't talking about the initial topic ?

[Yimjek 10]

yerham waldikoum, herdou bel 3arbiya wella bel français

l'anglais c'est pas une langue des algeriens, c'est la langue des méchants anglo saxons

ceux qui ont inventez sionistan et wahhabistan

 

The Anglo-Saxons never killed anyone in my family,

 

The French did.

[Yimjek 10]

And I would have liked to write in Algerian Arabic, the common language in Algeria, but it's not written, has no established rules, it lacks vocabulary and it doesn't even have an established alphabet.

 

That's why I'm for its standardization, the creation of a language academy for it, to reassemble all its vocabulary (including the lost words), establish its rules, and make it into a language we can use for writing, like any other language.

 

But for the time being, as long as we don't have our national written language, I prefer to use English, the international language.

[Couscous Nomade 10]

And I would have liked to write in Algerian Arabic, the common language in Algeria, but it's not written, has no established rules, it lacks vocabulary and it doesn't even have an established alphabet.

 

That's why I'm for its standardization, the creation of a language academy for it, to reassemble all its vocabulary (including the lost words), establish its rules, and make it into a language we can use for writing, like any other language.

 

But for the time being, as long as we don't have our national written language, I prefer to use English, the international language.

 

:o

Now that you're talking linguistics,I think I am going to actively participate in this thread's hijacking . :D

 

I argue with you to a lesser extent regarding the linguistic situation of Algerian Arabic,but you're dead wrong about its structure, because every single language in the world has its own rules and vocabulary... Sibawaih did not invent the rules for Classical Arabic,he figured them out !

A language's rules are deeply embedded in the native speaker's mind and they are passed down from generation to another almost unchanged .

Example in Algerian Arabic:

Garou(a cigarette)

Zoudj gwara(two cigarette)

You wouldn't be able to find someone who says zoudj gwarou and even if you would that wouldn't sound right to you,would it ?

 

Actually,most linguists consider dialects and languages the same thing !!!

Having said that,I think you should read more about how French and English came to be as languages.

French as we know it today was one of many languages/dialects spoken in France it was only promoted by The French monarchy because it happened to be their mother tongue,the same goes for Classical Arabic which was one of many dialects/languages spoken in the Arabian Peninsula,once again this language/dialect was solely promoted at the other varieties because people thought it was a heavenly tongue !

 

PS:

Most Algerians if not all of them are speaking in tongues when performing their prayers,they don't know jacksh** about what they're actually saying .

[Yimjek 10]

:o

Now that you're talking linguistics,I think I am going to actively participate in this thread's hijacking . :D

 

I argue with you to a lesser extent regarding the linguistic situation of Algerian Arabic,but you're dead wrong about its structure, because every single language in the world has its own rules and vocabulary... Sibawaih did not invent the rules for Classical Arabic,he figured them out !

A language's rules are deeply embedded in the native speaker's mind and they are passed down from generation to another almost unchanged .

Example in Algerian Arabic:

Garou(a cigarette)

Zoudj gwara(two cigarette)

You wouldn't be able to find someone who says zoudj gwarou and even if you would that wouldn't sound right to you,would it ?

 

Actually,most linguists consider dialects and languages the same thing !!!

Having said that,I think you should read more about how French and English came to be as languages.

French as we know it today was one of many languages/dialects spoken in France it was only promoted by The French monarchy because it happened to be their mother tongue,the same goes for Classical Arabic which was one of many dialects/languages spoken in the Arabian Peninsula,once again this language/dialect was solely promoted at the other varieties because people thought it was a heavenly tongue !

 

PS:

Most Algerians if not all of them are speaking in tongues when performing their prayers,they don't know jacksh** about what they're actually saying .

 

I agree with all of this, read my previous posts, my replies to Lodez, etc.

 

I didn't actually mean that Algerian Arabic didn't have rules, obviously it does have them, it is just not officially established, used, written, etc, like other languages, and it lacks vocabulary.

 

That's why we need a language academy to reassemble de missing and the lost words (words used by old people that are now forgotten and replaced with French), give the language a written form with an exact writing for each word, etc etc ..

 

So we can use it like any other language. And this is our language.

 

And well, it wasn't my idea to go to the topic of linguistics in the first place, that was the Berberist 'Blacky', who like many other Berberists, would always bring up the issue of Berber language and of the identity of Algeria, even when it's not the topic of the thread. so I replied to him on the same topic.

[Guest zohra83]

I agree with all of this, read my previous posts, my replies to Lodez, etc.

 

I didn't actually mean that Algerian Arabic didn't have rules, obviously it does have them, it is just not officially established, used, written, etc, like other languages, and it lacks vocabulary.

 

That's why we need a language academy to reassemble de missing and the lost words (words used by old people that are now forgotten and replaced with French), give the language a written form with an exact writing for each word, etc etc ..

 

So we can use it like any other language. And this is our language.

 

And well, it wasn't my idea to go to the topic of linguistics in the first place, that was the Berberist 'Blacky', who like many other Berberists, would always bring up the issue of Berber language and of the identity of Algeria, even when it's not the topic of the thread. so I replied to him on the same topic.

 

 

Elle est très intéressante cette discussion. C'est dommage que vous deux vous communiqués en anglais ce qui exclut les autres de cette discussion passionnante (malgré hors topique).

 

D'ailleurs je comprends très bien ton aversion contre la langue française, je la partage complétement et je n'aime pas la parler (et je la parle très rarement), mais ici dans ce forum on n'a pas le choix si on veut rester respectueux envers les autres (je crois).

 

Je suis d'accord avec vous deux que c'est important d'officialiser notre langue (parlé par la majorité sur le terrain) et qu'il faut faire tout ce qui est possible pour lui donner un cadre. C'est un devoir envers notre héritage.